Curse

Winstar · Jan 27, 2009, 05:23 AM // 05:23

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Originally Posted by snaek

its not the matter of lying about gw2 and nevar intending to make it
its a matter of wanting to make it, but problems have arisen
problems that may either slow or cease production completely

seriously, do u think duke nukem forever was a hoax?
at certain points, i do believe they truly wanted to make it
but things dun always go as we want...now do they?

imo, anet is full of so many ideas...
but if only they could execute them well
i kept hearing "limitation of the gw1 engine" as an excuse of holding them backcan they bring bout all these awesome ideas into fruition in gw2?
or is the lack of any information another hint that anet is all idea and no execution?

(1) I never said GW2 was a hoax and I don't believe DN2 was a hoax. I was _responding_ to people who think it is and I've heard this many times. Of course its not a hoax. Not sure how you read that into what I said.

(2) Problems have arisen? What problems? You don't know that problems have arisen. No body knows that there are any problems at all. Of course there are challenges in the process of designing an ambitious game that has to meet expectations- but where do you get this from?

(3) Your last paragraph is an example of the kind of wild speculation based on no information whatsoever.

The silence breeds rumors. The rumors become truth.

snaek · Jan 27, 2009, 05:46 AM // 05:46

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Originally Posted by winstar

(1) I never said GW2 was a hoax and I don't believe DN2 was a hoax. I was _responding_ to people who think it is and I've heard this many times. Of course its not a hoax. Not sure how you read that into what I said.

- it was officially announced
- u stated a "what if" statement whether or not they intended to make gw2
- announcing a product u never intend to make = hoax

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(2) Problems have arisen? What problems? You don't know that problems have arisen. No body knows that there are any problems at all. Of course there are challenges in the process of designing an ambitious game that has to meet expectations- but where do you get this from?

im merely speculating
not creating rumours...making an educated guess with wut little information we have
and a lot of the information im pulling from is based on how they handled gw1

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(3) Your last paragraph is an example of the kind of wild speculation based on no information whatsoever.

actually anet said themselves about the limitations of the gw engine
and was stated as one of the reasons to stop making further campaigns

'lack of good execution on their ideas' is my observation from -past- anet incidents
while it still may be speculation...it is still based on interpreting previous information
analyzing the progress and evolution of gw1

Winstar · Jan 27, 2009, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

- it was officially announced
- u stated a "what if" statement whether or not they intended to make gw2
- announcing a product u never intend to make = hoax

im merely speculating
not creating rumours...making an educated guess with wut little information we have and a lot of the information im pulling from is based on how they handled gw1

actually anet said themselves about the limitations of the gw engine
and was stated as one of the reasons to stop making further campaigns

'lack of good execution on their ideas' is my observation from -past- anet incidents while it still may be speculation...it is still based on interpreting previous information analyzing the progress and evolution of gw1

Feel free to read my post next time. I never suggested GW2 was a hoax. I was pointing out that the suggestion that GW2 was a marketing ploy - a hoax - is misguided. There is a not so subtle difference between claiming that something is a hoax, and claiming that those who think it is a hoax are wrong.

You are basically speculating on no information yes, and you said not that "perhaps problems have arisen" or "maybe what is holding them is a major design roadblock" you said;

"its not the matter of lying about gw2 and nevar intending to make it its a matter of wanting to make it, but problems have arisen problems that may either slow or cease production completely"

Which is a much stronger statement . This sounds like your stating some facts about the process which in you don't have.

Finally, I was referring to your to your claim about Anet "being all ideas and no execution" regarding GW2, which is speculation. I know the limitations of the GW1 engine was one of the motivations for GW2.

Ctb · Jan 27, 2009, 02:58 PM // 14:58

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1) There are fairly large updates yet to come for GW1:

That page doesn't say anything about any large updates. And by large updates, I assume you mean several hours worth of new content, which would be a "small update" in most other MMOs. Storage isn't a "large update".

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Blizzard hasn't released a new Diablo title in nearly a decade, and many old school D2 fans are itching to play D3.

Diablo isn't an MMO. It's the action RPG that set the standard for an entire sub-genre, creating an enormous fan base that has had nothing to play since that comes anywhere close to replicating the original. Guild Wars is an MMO that was born with a limited feature set that hasn't expanded significantly in a saturated market that allows gamers to jump from game to game on a whim almost nonstop without ever running out of new things to play.

No comparison.

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By the way, when it comes to concept art, don't you think the pages upon pages of concept art for Utopia kiiiiiiinda sorta count a little bit? I mean, they canceled that campaign, took its skeletal remains, and gave us EoTN. If you think that a large portion of that unused art WON'T be going straight toward GW2, you are insane, Jack! =P

Baseless speculation.

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Why is it so hard for people to believe that Anet doesn't want to release game info, because they don't want to (even if they have their reasons)?

Because some of us don't want to believe that any gaming company could conceivably be that stupid? Because most people don't sit around arguing on a video game board about the existance of a game, they just take their money elsewhere and forget all about it if they never hear anything?

Do you people seriously think that most players who leave the game come here to argue with you? Most people just go play something else and when Guild Wars 2 comes out (if it comes out, and if it's even really a Guild Wars sequel) they'll be cold selling the game to them all over again.

Most people don't sit around wringing their hands about sequels and expansions. If they don't see it coming, they just take their money to someone else who has something they want to play.

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They had to wait for the game to reach a certain stage in production so they could implement the changes on the GW2 side

Prove it.

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Regina has seen the game, Regina has played the game. GW2 exists. Production keeps on moving forward.

Prove any of those statements.

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All 3 rushed to market, all three had initial good sales and then bombed to the extent that 2 out of 3 are totally dead and gone and the third is barely hanging on.

Which is all well and good, but those games were not heavily promoted until after demos, presentations, and screenshots were available. Forget hype, nobody's even seen a SCREENSHOT of the game yet.

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Oh, and for all the QQ'ing about a GW2 beta, you all realize that GW2 would be a closed beta, right? So, it could actually be in beta already and none of you would know it and those that did know would be under an NDA not to talk about it. Just a thought.

Prove it.

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It just means it hasn't released concrete footage

That's not what vaporware means.

BrettM · Jan 27, 2009, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

Prove any of those statements.

See Regina's Talk Page.

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Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

The Community Team is just as impatient as you, even moreso since we have seen the game, but unfortunately, the Powers That Be have decided to keep everything hush-hush for now. --Regina Buenaobra Image:User Regina Buenaobra sig.png 02:07, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

(Emphasis added.) Statement proved: Regina has seen the game. Unless you want to contend that she is a liar, in which case I think the burden of proof shifts back to you.

trankle · Jan 27, 2009, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

Most people don't sit around wringing their hands about sequels and expansions. If they don't see it coming, they just take their money to someone else who has something they want to play.

That's going to be a big problem for Anet.

Except, of course, that GW2 will be released:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

in a saturated market that allows gamers to jump from game to game on a whim almost nonstop without ever running out of new things to play.

Or in other words, it doesn't matter if there is extended hype for the game. If it's a good game, people will buy it.

I fail to see the problem.

Gun Pierson · Jan 27, 2009, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

Prove it.

I can proove Regina said she has seen and has played the game, but I'm waiting for an answer from the crm if I can quote her as it was in a private form of communication.

If you need proof of the game itself, I'm afraid you'll have to wait like everyone else mate.

Shanaeri Rynale · Jan 27, 2009, 04:58 PM // 16:58

As I said. Do I believe GW2 is being worked on? yup totally. Will it come out, very probably.

What is wrong is that Anet do not have market clout to go against how every other good game I can remember has been marketed. There is a whole lot of difference between releasing a game early and showing a few peices of concept art or a screenshot.

It's really easy to release a few screenies and say 'At long last here are some GW2 Screenies. It will probably look a lot a different when it's done, but we could'nt wait to show you how far we've come and how far we still have to go. Don't worry we wont be pressed into releasing a half done game, but for now enjoy'

That's all it would take to end this speculation. There are no trade secrets at risk, and everyone knows that the games not done but at least it's it has something to look at.

Anet's marketing strategy is IMHO very high risk, and in my view unneccesarily so.

Ctb · Jan 27, 2009, 05:35 PM // 17:35

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See Regina's Talk Page .. Statement proved

That proves nothing to me. Your standard for proof may only aspire to the internet posts of a paid company spokesperson, but mine are a bit higher. If I were to use your standards of proof, I should be slavering over the imminent release of Duke Nukem: Forever as well (well, actually, DNF is on much better footing than the GW2 claims: it definitely exists, they're just never going to actually finish it).

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I fail to see the problem.

If it's a good game and they market it well, there won't be a problem. Tabula Rasa suggests that NCSoft can't rely on both those assumptions being true simultaneously, however.

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If you need proof of the game itself, I'm afraid you'll have to wait like everyone else mate.

Yea, that's the point. All we have as "evidence" is employees of ANET and NCSoft saying it exists. Which is fine early on, but two years into development you really ought to see something coming of all the work that's supposedly being done.

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Anet's marketing strategy is IMHO very high risk, and in my view unneccesarily so.

A distinct possibility, but I still think that there never will be a Guild Wars 2. I think Guild Wars barely worked out for them an the follow-up will be a whole new game that just acts a "spiritual predecessor" to Guild Wars, sort of how Hellgate: London was billed as a spiritual followup to Diablo.

mrvrod · Jan 27, 2009, 06:00 PM // 18:00

A question for the group. Why do people keep throwing Tabula Rasa, Hellgate, and Aion into these discussions? These are all NC Soft games, with NC Soft marketing strategies.

This is Guild Wars and ArenaNet. There have already been several links in several threads to the article stating ArenaNet is in no way held to the same marketing strategies or timetables as NC Soft.

A-Net has GW, that's it! If they lose the interest of the fans of this game, they're done! They will not exist as a company anymore! Period.

Nereyda Shoaal · Jan 27, 2009, 06:04 PM // 18:04

I used to work for gaming industry and I can give you quite few titles which weren't "properly promoted" by the developers. By the end of the day they were massive hits. One of the recent ones - GTA IV

Besides why do you need screens from GW2? Do what with them?
It won't look like UT or NFS will it? Don't expect Saruman there either

Ctb · Jan 27, 2009, 06:58 PM // 18:58

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One of the recent ones - GTA IV

What is it about the internet that makes people unable to make valid comparisons between like things?

Grand Theft Auto: A series that defined and popularized the 3rd person sandbox concept for millions. Predecessor to GTA IV sold over 20 million units alone.

Guild Wars: Standard feature-lean MMO trope that had as its most notable feature no monthly fee. Entire series sold about 5.5 million units.

Grand Theft Auto is practically a household name. It has sold over 70 million copies on multiple systems, received tons of free (bad) press for its controversial themes and entered the relatively forgiving over-the-shoulder 3D action genre as something of a revolutionary game. It has spawned imitators and parlayed one success after another into increasingly impressive sales numbers.

Guild Wars is the second most popular game in the narrow field of MMOs and brought only one relatively revolutionary feature to the genre (which hasn't caught on): no monthly fee. Unless you count the lack of a z-axis or any of the two or three dozen other basic MMO features it lacks. It has no imitators, failed to capture a significant market share away from it's chief competitor, and has yet to release a true sequel that would prove or disprove it's ability to turn one success into another.

Stop comparing unlike things.

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Besides why do you need screens from GW2? Do what with them?

Is this a joke?

Rocky Raccoon · Jan 27, 2009, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Why do people who supposedly liked GW go out of their way to put down ANET and GW2?
Is it a reverse psychology attempt hoping that ANET will release something? Or is that they really hope the game doesn't exist. I think we all would like some information about how far along the game is, but some people have more patience than others. I guess my question to all the naysayers is where has all your negativity come from and why?

Ctb · Jan 27, 2009, 07:40 PM // 19:40

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I guess my question to all the naysayers is where has all your negativity come from and why?

I'm not being negative, I'm observing the obvious: there's no proof this game exists as anything but words on thin air.

I don't give a crap if they release information about it or not. I got my money's worth out of Guild Wars, if they release a sequel or another game, and it looks like fun, I'll probably play that too. For the time being, however, there's no evidence they're doing any such thing.

Rocky Raccoon · Jan 27, 2009, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

I'm not being negative, I'm observing the obvious: there's no proof this game exists as anything but words on thin air.

I don't give a crap if they release information about it or not. I got my money's worth out of Guild Wars, if they release a sequel or another game, and it looks like fun, I'll probably play that too. For the time being, however, there's no evidence they're doing any such thing.

Why do you need proof? If someone tells me that something exists and I have no reason to disbelieve them, then I believe the game exists. What ever happened to people having trust in what they are being told?

Fril Estelin · Jan 27, 2009, 07:59 PM // 19:59

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there's no proof this game exists as anything but words on thin air.

I don't know in which (virtual) world you exist, but words are proofs in RL. I won't even start this discussion here and with you, but let's just say that you're actually not making any valid counter-argument, because what people say is not "the game exists, I've seen it" but rather "I believe the game exists because I've been convinced by what I've read".

You can distrusts all you want, because of "reasons" X, Y or Z, while it's as valid to trust for us. At one point we have to agree to disagree.

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I don't give a crap if they release information about it or not. I got my money's worth out of Guild Wars, if they release a sequel or another game, and it looks like fun, I'll probably play that too. For the time being, however, there's no evidence they're doing any such thing.

You should try to enlighten yourself one day and observe a trial court. Listen to scientists presenting "pieces of evidence" and then look at how it can be used pro or against arguments and theories, while both sides are "valid". Sorry for the clunky analogy, but it's the "truth", in the end we believe stuff we've been told (unless it's a complete and consistent theory, but even then you have to explain it in words, unless you're a computer)

The pieces of evidence are: Umbra being licensed, Regina and top NCsoft people have "seen" GW2, 100+ employees on the payroll;
Your theory is: this does not show that there's a GW2 being developed;
Ours is: this shows that there's a GW2 being developed.

Now choose your camp (yours is clear) and stop this silly argument. There's enough non-sense in this world to continue to fuel this thread. In a few months/years, we'll both come back here and we'll know. Until then, to each his own.

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Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

Why do people who supposedly liked GW go out of their way to put down ANET and GW2?
Is it a reverse psychology attempt hoping that ANET will release something?

Yep some people work like that. Others are just angry about the fact that Anet didn't implement what they wanted GW1 to be, or they simply prefer another MMO and love to bash what they consider "fanboys". Some others are just here to create an argument, trolls.

Shadowmoon · Jan 27, 2009, 08:05 PM // 20:05

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Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

Why do you need proof? If someone tells me that something exists and I have no reason to disbelieve them, then I believe the game exists. What ever happened to people having trust in what they are being told?

And this is why 60% of Americans believe Noah's Art story literally, because they don't have critical thinking. We don't trust them because they are paid to paint a pretty picture. Look at games like Eve with the T3 situation. Or the multiple lies from Hellgate. Or look at this game with duping, does anyone honestly believe that the majority of it happened that weekend like Gaile Said, when there was stacks of armbraces trade happens months earlier.

Rocky Raccoon · Jan 27, 2009, 08:13 PM // 20:13

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Originally Posted by Shadowmoon

And this is why 60% of Americans believe Noah's Art story literally, because they don't have critical thinking. We don't trust them because they are paid to paint a pretty picture. Look at games like Eve with the T3 situation. Or the multiple lies from Hellgate. Or look at this game with duping, does anyone honestly believe that the majority of it happened that weekend like Gaile Said, when there was stacks of armbraces trade happens months earlier.

So are you saying that ANET is paying people just to mislead us that they are working on a game that does not exist?

Apollo Smile · Jan 27, 2009, 08:16 PM // 20:16

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Originally Posted by Shadowmoon

And this is why 60% of Americans believe Noah's Art story literally, because they don't have critical thinking. We don't trust them because they are paid to paint a pretty picture.

Aren't the also paid to make games? Like Guild Wars 2?

kupp · Jan 27, 2009, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ctb

Because some of us don't want to believe that any gaming company could conceivably be that stupid? Because most people don't sit around arguing on a video game board about the existance of a game, they just take their money elsewhere and forget all about it if they never hear anything?

Do you people seriously think that most players who leave the game come here to argue with you? Most people just go play something else and when Guild Wars 2 comes out (if it comes out, and if it's even really a Guild Wars sequel) they'll be cold selling the game to them all over again.

Most people don't sit around wringing their hands about sequels and expansions. If they don't see it coming, they just take their money to someone else who has something they want to play.

Stupid, but why? Because they don't want to overhype the only title Anet works on, so as to not see it crash like so many other examples that already been given on the countless threads about GW2? Because they don't want to set the standard by releasing information/screenshots/videos about GW2 in it's development stage where ideias and features get scraped, and later on not beeing able to meet those standards? If Anet released information about GW2 now they most likely would be shooting themselves in the foot. Now that's where a company is conceivably that stupid

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Prove it.

It was an annoucment made by Regina about 4-5 months ago, feel free to search it, I sure as hell ain't gonna do it for you. You can start here. Until you find it and read it with your own eyes, don't discredit what she said.